La voiture de demain, énergies alternatives

[john_ross]

Et bien le rendement d'une turbine géante + transmission + moteur éléctrique est bien supérieur à celui du moteur à combustion interne, c'est aussi simple que celà.

Et on rappellera que le charbon est un carburant très bon marché.

Si tu ne vois pas, c'est quand même que tu ne t'es pas beaucoup renseigné sur le sujet, avec tout le respect que je te dois.

Sur le cycle je suis bien d'accord mais du puits à la roue, je ne suis pas sûr qu'il y ait une amélioration de rendement.

La construction et la dépollution des batteries est très énergivore.

Source?

Il s'agit de calcul fait par moi même, j'essaierai de les retrouver ce we avec les sources.

Ces calculs sont fait sur la base de voiture électrique roulant à l'électricité nucléaire et de l'augmentation de la consommation électrique des autres domaines qui aboutissent à devoir doubler la capacité de production en 30 ans.

[neuneu2k]

Et bien le rendement d'une turbine géante + transmission + moteur éléctrique est bien supérieur à celui du moteur à combustion interne, c'est aussi simple que celà.

Ca dépends de la batterie, c'est indéniable avec une batterie parfaite, ou même avec une turbine embarquée (le problème de la propulsion intégrée étant le budget poids sur les véhicules légers, mais c’est très probablement l’avenir du camion si on ne révolutionne pas les batteries).

Bien entendu, en ajoutant la batterie, c’est nettement plus discutable, ca n’est possible actuellement qu’avec des cellules haut de gamme, et donc des véhicules extrêmement chers, si les premières voitures électriques ‘modernes’ sont des supercars, il y a une raison : une fois le pack de batteries acheté, ca ne change pas tant que ca au prix de mettre un châssis ultra léger.

[Nick de Cusa]

Clarification : quand je parlais de turbine géante, je parlais bien sûr de celles des centrales électriques nucléaires, charbon, mazout et gaz.

[neuneu2k]

Clarification : quand je parlais de turbine géante, je parlais bien sûr de celles des centrales électriques nucléaires, charbon, mazout et gaz.

Je l’entendais bien ainsi, je précisais juste que c’était également vrai même avec une turbine ‘locale’.

[Nick de Cusa]

Peugeot va apporter le saut technologique qui va enfin permettre le passage à l'électrique :

un tournevis et un beau badge en plastique finition chrome.

Peugeot to sell rebadged Mitsubishi i MiEV in late 2010

by Sam Abuelsamid on Mar 4th 2009 at 9:01AM

After rumors popped up several weeks ago that Mitsubishi and Peugeot would collaborate on a French-badged version of the iMiEV electric car in Europe, both sides vehemently denied it. Those denials can now be laid to rest as Peugeot and Mitsubishi have announced that a memorandum of understanding that should lead to the introduction of a Peugeot EV by late 2010 or early 2011. The two companies have been negotiating for more than 10 months. Mitsubishi will build the cars for Peugeot and they will be sold alongside the iMiEV in the European market. The Mitsubishi version goes on sale in Japan this summer and Europe in mid-2010. Mitsubishi still hasn't decided whether to offer the car in the U.S., although several of them are currently operating in test fleets in the U.S. now. We drove the iMiEV in New York a while back, so click here to check out our driving impressions.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/04/peugeot…v-in-late-2010/

[h16]

Tu devrais être violemment contre parce que ça permet de stocker des énergies intermittentes comme l'éolien et le solaire.

Bah non. Si on arrive à stocker l'éolien ou le solaire, ça devient des sources intéressantes. Maintenant, il ne faut pas mettre les éoliennes ailleurs qu'en pleine mer, par exemple. Mais ça, c'est un autre problème, hein.

Je l’entendais bien ainsi, je précisais juste que c’était également vrai même avec une turbine ‘locale’.

Une turbine dans une voiture a tout de même des problèmes de rendements, non ?

Clarification : quand je parlais de turbine géante, je parlais bien sûr de celles des centrales électriques nucléaires, charbon, mazout et gaz.

Ouf. Je croyais que tu parlais à nouveau de Ségolène Royal.

[Nick de Cusa]

Une turbine dans une voiture a tout de même des problèmes de rendements, non ?

En gros, il me semble que l'espace entre le bout de la pale et la paroi du logement de la turbine ne peut pas être tellement comprimé quand on réduit son diamètre. Le ratio longueur de pale / interstice augmente donc et le rendement diminue. Mais là je m'avance un peu, je n'en mettrais non seulement pas ma main à couper, mais même pas mes ongles.

[Nick de Cusa]

Ca fait du bien une petite tranche de rigolade un vendredi après midi.

Ethanol cellulosique : oops, on avait oublié le détail de l'approvisonnement en arbres. Très bon billet de Robert Rapier. Quel dommage qu'il croie eu RC celui là.

About That Logistics Problem

In 2006 I warned about just how many trees a cellulosic ethanol plant could consume:

Cellulosic Ethanol Reality Check

Let’s consider a typical mid-sized 50 million gallon per year ethanol plant. Using Iogen’s demonstrated yields, the biomass requirement would be 50 million/70 = 714,286 tons of biomass per year. According to Dr. Bruce Marcot, an ecologist at the USDA Forest Service the average Douglas fir yields about 1660 lbs of pulp (90% of the tree's weight). So, to run a mid-sized cellulosic ethanol facility would require the equivalent of 714,286 tons * 2000 lbs/ton /(1660) or 860,585 Douglas firs PER YEAR. That's a lot of biomass, and it puts into perspective the issue of a declining EROEI as biomass must be secured from farther afield.

Seems that people are starting to figure this out, as forestry experts are starting to wonder where Mascoma is going to get all of the trees to supply the cellulosic ethanol plant they plan to build in Michigan:

When Making Fuel From Wood, Be Sure You Have Wood

That's the lesson Michigan is learning as forestry experts question whether the state can grow enough timber to support what could be the nation's first cellulosic ethanol plant producing commercially viable biofuel from wood. Biofuel startup Mascoma plans to build the $225 million refinery near Sault Ste. Marie in Michigan's beautiful upper peninsula. It is working with Longyear, a Michigan timber company that owns at least 100,000 acres of forest in the western part of the state.

The million refinery would consume 375,000 cords of timber -- a cord measures 8 feet long, 4 feet wide and 4 feet tall - to make 40 million gallons of cellulosic ethanol annually. Therein lies the problem.

Of course if you saw my initial essay, you were aware of this problem a couple of years ago. Pretty soon they will figure out that while this may seem like an enormous amount of wood, at least it will go for a good cause. It will produce enough ethanol to replace 0.02% of our gasoline supply.

http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/

[José]

Electric Cars for All! (No, Really This Time)

By DAVID POGUE

Published: March 19, 2009

Last Sunday, "CBS News Sunday Morning" broadcast my report about Better Place, a radical, overarching plan to replace the world's gas cars with electric ones—really, really quickly. The nutty thing is, it just might work; the streetside charging outlets for these cars are already under construction in six countries and two U.S. states. (You can watch the story here.)

As always, there wasn't enough time on TV for the whole interview. So here's a longer, edited excerpt of my chat with Better Place chief executive Shai Agassi, former SAP executive.

DP: Explain how this is different from all the failed electric car programs that have come before.

SA: Most of the car efforts were done from within the car, and assuming that there is no infrastructure change at all. It's as if people were trying to build cars, but skipping over the gas station.

We started from the infrastructure. We came up with an electric car that would have two features that nobody had before. 1) The battery is removable. So if you wanted to go a long distance, you could switch your battery instead of waiting for it to charge for a very long time.

And 2) It was cheaper than gasoline car, not more expensive. Because you didn't buy the battery. You paid just for the miles and for the car.

DP: So what will you guys make? What will you do?

SA: We sell miles, the way that AT&T sells you minutes. They buy bandwidth and they translate into minutes. We buy batteries and clean electrons--we only buy electrons that come from renewable sources--and we translate that into miles.

DP: What are we talking about here? What's the infrastructure you're building?

SA: We have two pieces of infrastructure. 1) Charge spots. And they will be everywhere, like parking meters, only instead of taking money from you when you park, they give you electrons. And they will be at home, they'll be at work, they'll be at downtown and retail centers. As if you have a magic contract with Chevron or Exxon that every time you stop your car and go away, they fill it up.

Now, that gives us the ability to drive most of our drives, sort of a 100-mile radius. And that's most of the drives we do. But we also take care of the exceptional drive. You want to go from Boston to New York. And so on the way, we have what we call switch stations: lanes inside gas stations. You go into the switch station, your depleted battery comes out, a full battery comes in, and you keep driving. It takes you about two, three minutes--less than filling with gasoline--and you can keep on going.

DP: But it sounds like you're talking about a parallel universe, where there are hundreds of thousands of charging spots and switch stations. There aren't any.

SA: Well, that's what we're building. If you think of our first location in Israel, we will have about a quarter of a million charge spots before the first car shows up. Just like you wouldn't buy a cell phone on a network that wasn't built yet. You have to first build the network. And then let the cars come in.

And so we put a massive investment in big infrastructure projects: Green jobs. A new electric infrastructure for cars.

DP: And has nobody said, "By the way, this is crazy?"

SA: Oh-- about nine out of ten people say it's crazy. But the other ones are actually saying "Where can I put my money?"

We raised $200 million in a seed round, the largest seed round of any startup in history. We raised a $135 million a week ago in Denmark to put the same network in Denmark. We're raising $700 million in Australia to build this network on the biggest island you can find. So this is actually getting a lot of support and a lot of funding.

DP: Which governments are actually signing up?

SA: Israel was first. Denmark signed up next. Denmark is the host of the next climate change conference, and the prime minister really backed this up: They put a huge tax on gasoline cars, 180 percent tax, and zero tax on electric vehicles.

Australia signed up after.

Then we went to the U.S. Gavin Newsom, mayor of San Francisco, coordinated an effort of all the mayors in the Bay area to create the next transportation island, the San Francisco Bay area. Even though it's not an island.

Governor Lingle of Hawaii was really the driving force behind getting us to Hawaii. And then the Premier of Ontario announced about a month ago that we're gonna go to Ontario. And Ontario, most people don't know, is the capital of cars in North America. They make more cars than Michigan these days.

And there's a lot of interest beyond these first six networks that we've announced. We're talking about 25 countries around the world, and various different governors and mayors in the U.S.

DP: Hawaii's an island. Australia's a big island. Why islands?

SA: Contained islands are easier to work with, because you have sort of an ecosystem of cars that don't go in and out.

DP: Now so far, these electric cars that are coming to market: Tesla, $100,000. Volt, $40,000. How much will one of these cars cost?

SA: If you take the battery component out of our car--which is what we do; we don't let you buy the battery, we buy the battery--then our cars are on par with gasoline cars. So an SUV will cost roughly the same as an equivalent gas SUV, roughly in the $20,000 range. A sedan will cost roughly the same range. About $20,000.

What we also do is, if you're committing to driving a long distance--for example, if you're committing to 20,000 miles a year--we give you a discount. And a discount can be sometimes $50 a month, sometimes $100 a month, towards the car. In other words, we pay for your financing of the car. And so you get a car that's actually cheaper than its gasoline equivalent, depending on how many miles you commit. You can go all the way down-- and in the case of people who drive a lot, like taxis--all the way down to zero.

DP: Free car? If you sign up for the maximum minutes plan?

SA: This is Oprah for everybody. Right? (LAUGH) It's, "You all got a free car!"

DP: Now, you don't strike me as a guy with a lot of car experience. Why is everybody buying into this vision that you, a software guy, are bringing them?

SA: Well, I'm more of an integration guy. So if you think about it, even though I was at SAP, SAP is about understanding the art of technology, the software part, but also understanding the processes of business. And if you look at what I did in the past, I managed teams who brought about a 100 products a year. We had labs in 25 countries around the world. Very, very complex solutions that drove the largest companies on earth, including car companies. What I bring in is that understanding of complexity of both the technology and the economy.

When you look at the problem mobility with a fresh set of eyes, sometimes you find solutions that the guys who are sort of locked in the inertia of day-to-day business--have missed.

DP: What do you think about hybrid cars?

SA: Well, the most successful hybrid car in the world, Prius, is roughly around 1 or 2 million cars. Out of about 750 million cars. In other words, we're having 0.0 percent effect on oil consumption.

During those 12 years, we added 200 million gas cars. We're moving really slowly if we're gonna go to hybrid! What you need to do is you go to zero: zero emissions, zero oil. And you have to scale it to infinity, if we really want to make a difference.

DP: I hear a lot that the battery technology just is not here for electric cars. It has to work in the Arizona summer. It has to work in Fairbanks, Alaska. Short battery life, lethal to throw into the junkyard when it's done. Have you thought about this stuff?

SA: Yeah, so let's demystify batteries for a second. As a consumable, the batteries we're getting today are roughly in the range of about $.06 to $.08 a mile.

If you try and find gasoline, in the U.S. you're roughly at about $.10 to $.12 a mile. So the first thing is it's cheap. Second thing is, the batteries we're using are not lead-acid batteries. They're lithium iron phosphate. All within the 35 most common elements in nature. So they're not dangerous to the environment.

Three: They're consumed for a very, very long time. These batteries will last multiple generations. 20, 25 years.

The fourth element is that there's always a better battery around the corner. Now in the past, that was a negative thing. Because you were afraid to buy a car and get stuck with a car that has a battery that's an older generation. And then not be able to sell it. It was a very, very negative thing.

What we've done by decoupling the car and the battery is, we took away that fear. You may buy a car with generation 1 battery today, and then three years, five years, ten years from now, you may get a different battery that's designed with backwards compatibility into your car, but gives you longer range.

DP: How will it work for a subscriber? Specifically?

SA: Most of what we've done is try to make it convenient. We don't want you to pass a credit card when you charge the car. We don't want you to pay every time you switch the battery. We looked at it from the angle of convenience.

And so we're probably gonna see three different pricing models. In some places, you'll see it sort of as pay-as-you-go, very much like a gas tank. I mean, if you think about it, a gas tank is sort of the prepaid phone-card model of cars. You come, you buy 400 miles, you drive 'em. You buy another 400 miles.

So they'll be something like that in the base package. There'll be a fixed number of miles, plus a surcharge if you go more than that--1,500 miles a month or something in that range. And then there'll be the all-you-can-drive model. You pay one-time fee, you and your family can drive as much as you want on that car.

And we like those guys the most. Because effectively, what they do is they take the drivers who consume the most oil, and spew out the most pollution and CO2 emissions, off the road first. 'Cause if you come and tell people there's a flat fee, then the guys who drive the most, the extremes of the extremes, think you're crazy, and they're the first ones who come in and jump. So it's a self-selection process of the guys who we want to get off the road first.

DP: Oh. And-- do you have any idea how much that might cost?

SA: It depends on the price of gasoline in the market that we're coming in, because we're replacing gasoline miles. So if you're in a country where gasoline is at $7, $8 a gallon, which is what Europe is right now, the cost of a mile is much higher. If you're in the Bay Area or in Hawaii, you're paying a lot less per mile. So we need to be competitive with the price of gasoline in the location. That's why Europe has a significant advantage over the U.S. in getting these kinds of solutions in place.

DP: Your critics have had their potshots. What are the realistic obstacles?

SA: This is a massive integration project. And everything needs to happen roughly at the same time. In other words, the cars need to show up at the same time as batteries need to produce in scale. At the same time as the infrastructure's in the ground. All of that needs to be synchronized with beautiful software that runs inside the car. And then back-end software.

And then all this has to happen at a scale that is scary, to a certain degree. We need to be at 100,000 cars in 2011. About 100 million cars by 2016 to 2020. A thousand-times growth in production capacity and in installation capacity. There's never been a project of this magnitude in history.

DP: No.

SA: But if we don't get a hundred million cars, by the end of the next decade, [the world will have] a billion gasoline cars on the road--and we're done. We don't know how to produce enough oil for a billion cars. So humanity needs to switch before we run out of natural resources: air and oil.

DP: But aren't you just shifting all the energy producing pollution from the individual tailpipes to the power plants?

SA: Well, we have committed to only buying clean electrons. So we've made a decision that if we put a car on the road, we put a renewable source on the grid at the same time.

DP: Aren't the gas and oil industries going to want to squash you? They'll have lobbyists and PR…

SA: So, something fascinating happened over the last 12 months. The price of oil fluctuated up and down, from a $100 to $150 to $50 a barrel.

And it drove everybody in the industry crazy. We know what to do with oil: We drill, baby, drill. Right? But at $50, we can't drill. It's so expensive to drill, that the price of the oil doesn't pay for the cost of drilling. The fluctuation is worse to the car companies and the oil companies than any stable price, high or low. And so what all these car and oil companies are asking for right now is some sort of a stabilizer.

They need a company that would give an alternative that would be fixed in price. And they want it to be stabilized roughly around $75 to $100 a barrel. That's what they tell us. "$75 to $100 a barrel allows us to find marginal oil." And so they're actually liking us now. They want us to succeed because we're viewed as a sort of a stabilizing buoy.

DP: But you're also viewed as someone who's trying to end the oil industry.

SA: Well, they don't think it's gonna happen that fast. (laughs)

DP: It seems like you're the gatekeeper of all this. You could become Bill Gates. You could become the guy who changed it all and became fantastically wealthy and successful. Have you crunched the numbers at all, and said, like, "Yeah, I'm glad I quit SAP"?

SA: First of all, I'm already glad I quit SAP. Not because SAP isn't a fantastic company--I love SAP--but because there's a purpose in life. And that higher purpose is much more important than making money. I've been extremely blessed and successful. I sold my first start up at 30. I sold it again at 33. I made enough money in both cases that my kids don't need to worry about money.

So I've never done anything for money that point, at age 30. But when you find a great purpose in life, you gotta pursue it. It's when your big question finds you. You can't let it go.

One of the things that we've done that is very interesting, unique for a first mover, is, every government we go in to, we ask for one thing: "Make sure that you build an open, standards-based network." So that we can't lock any competitor out, and competitors can't lock us out when they show up. We want to make it so that the networks are so open, that I can roam from my network to their network and back.

We believe that if we align all the vectors together, we'll get adoption much faster. We had to opt for either speed or greed, and we picked speed.

DP: So speaking of these networks. When I plug into one, how does it know who I am?

SA: We have a protocol that goes between the car and the charge spot that says, "I'm car number 41, I'm seeing charge spot number 72." And the charge spot says to the central computer, "I'm charge spot 72, I'm seeing car 41." And the central computer says, "Okay, relax, I know you're there. And I'll tell you when you can start taking power."

And it tells them to take power when the utility, the supplier of electrons, says "I got power for you, for that many cars." Utilities tell us every three seconds how many cars can charge. And based on that, we moderate. The cars that need it the most importantly right now. So we sort the priority of the cars, based on how much they've got and how far they can go, and what's the probability the driver will show up again. If you came into work, and you're usually ten hours at work, you won't charge immediately in the morning. If you just came home, it's 5:00 and you don't leave, usually, you won't get charged.

But right as you park your car, you can press a button that says, "I need juice now." We put you in the top of the line.

So there's a lot of software, very simple. Mostly it's one click. But we do a lot of management behind the scenes.

DP: Do I need to install a charging spot in my garage?

SA: Yes. It's about $250 to $300.

DP: So I can't just use a regular power cord?

SA: You could, but what we're trying to do is make it so that when you plug in, YOU don't pay for the electricity. WE pay for the electricity; you only pay for the miles.

DP: What's the best hope of when we'll start to see these cars in America?

SA: Our stated goal is that mid-2011, we'll be in mass consumption. And the fist sites are Israel, Denmark and Hawaii. The second half of 2010, we'll be running a massive test: tens of thousands, hundred thousand spots in Israel. And right after that in Denmark with. Testing our software, testing our hardware, testing the switching, the entire network.

We've just installed the first charge spots in the U.S., in about 50 parking lots, tested the equipment for installation. In a couple months, we're installing the first switch station in Japan.

It's about 2 and a half years of testing, from now till the mass release.

DP: Wow, that's really fast.

SA: For a transformation of this magnitude, it's immensely fast. Yes.

DP: By the way, how do you stop teenagers from just walking by and unplugging everybody?

SA: Oh, it's a secret. And they shouldn't try it. (LAUGH) No, you can't just plug it out. You need your keychain.

DP: Oh, so the outlet locks onto to the socket?

SA: It has a mechanism in there to avoid vandalism.

DP: Oh. You've thought of everything.

SA: No. But we've thought of some of the things. (LAUGH)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technolo…;pagewanted=all

[Nick de Cusa]

Better Place est un projet intéressant mais il y a un conflit clair avec les constructeurs : ceux-ci veulent pouvoir différencier leurs produits grace à la batterie. C'est technologie qui va beaucoup évoluer et il y en aura des meilleures et des moins bonnes et des plus et moins chères. Better Place veut la même pour tous les véhicules.

Pour l'instant, leur principal partenaire est Renaul Nissan.

Il y a un autre projet initié par Daimler et RWE (le plus gros électricien allemand) pour faire avancer les points de recharge mais pas (je crois) pour standardiser les batteries.

Tiens, en cherchant un article sur ce sujet, je vois que Shai Agassi essaie de s'inctruster dans cette initiative là:

11.03.2009

Elektro-Autos

Better Place will Elektroauto-Allianz beitreten

Better Place bietet der europäischen Allianz für das Elektroauto die Zusammenarbeit an. "Standardsierungen sind für den Erfolg unabdingbar und wichtig, wir verfolgen einen globalen Ansatz", sagt Rolf Schumann, Deutschland-Statthalter von Better Place dem Handelsblatt.

Shai Agassi hat frühzeitig auf Elektro-Autos gesetzt und hat nun einen Vorsprung. Quelle: dpa

MÜNCHEN. "Wir hätten es begrüßt, wenn Better Place in die Beratungen einbezogen worden wäre. Wir können sicherlich einen wertvollen, global relevanten Beitrag leisten", sagt Schumann.

Better Place mit Sitz im kalifornischen Palo Alto ist ein globales Start-up zur Einführung des Elektroautos. Das Unternehmen reagiert auf die Ankündigung einer Gruppe von 20 führenden europäischen Energieversorgern und Autokonzernen, die an einer einheitlichen Infrastruktur für Elektroautos arbeitet.

Unter der Führung des RWE und Daimler will sich die Allianz schon bis April auf einheitliche Stecker, Kabel und Ladestationen verständigen. Die Partner wollen verhindern, dass die Einführung des Elektroautos von teuren Insellösungen behindert wird.

"Wir sind mit allen wichtigen Akteuren der Autoindustrie und der Energiewirtschaft in Deutschland im Gespräch", sagte Schumann gegenüber dem Handelsblatt. Noch in diesem Jahr will Better Place entscheiden, wie und wo das Unternehmen in Deutschland an den Start gehen werde.

Better Place wurde 2007 mit einem Startkapital von 200 Mio. Euro von dem ehemaligen SAP-Manager Shai Agasssi gegründet. Agassi will regionale Bündnisse schließen und sich vor allem bei dem Aufbau der Infrastruktur engagieren.

Better Place hat in Kalifornien, Kanada auf Hawaii und in Australien Vereinbarungen zum Aufbau einer Netzinfrastruktur abgeschlossen. In Israel will Better Place bereits 2011 ein flächendeckendes Netzt von Ladestationen anbieten und 19 Firmenflotten mit Elektroautos ausstatten, rund eine halbe Millionen Ladestationen sind geplant. Partner ist der französisch-japanische Autokonzern Renault-Nissan. In Europa ist eine Kooperation mit Dänermark beschlossen.

http://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/in…itreten;2198913

Une guerre de type VHS / Betamax / chacun pour soi en perspective?

[Nick de Cusa]

Tesla, et maintenant, la berline.

Il y en a de l'eau qui va passer sous les ponts d'ici fin 2011, donc toujours trop tôt pour retenir son souffle, mais les données sont alléchantes (à part le prix, ce qui n'est pas rien) et ils ont optimisé l'utilisation de l'espace grace à l'absence de moteur à combustion interne : 5 adultes + 2 enfants, le coffre étant à l'avant.

Le coût de l'optin 480 km (300 miles) n'est pas communiqué. Le prix des batteries de remplacement, donné à 5.000 Dollars, parait trop bas (Tesla fait il le pari que, d'ici aux premiers remplacements, vers 2017, les coûts auront beaucoup baissé?)

Et les 7.500 Dollars de subvention, c'est dégueulasse.

Tesla Model S: $50,000 EV sedan seats seven, 300-mile range, 0-60 in 5.5s

by Jonathon Ramsey on Mar 26th 2009 at 7:58PM

It's been a long and difficult road, but Tesla Motors has made it to unveiling No. 2. After a lot of hype and delivery of 250 Tesla Roadsters, the company's Model S was unveiled today in Hawthorne, California. Tesla was incredibly careful about not leaking a lot of information before today – designing the Model S at a high-security rocket facility helped with that, but we still got a peek a few hours ago – and now that it's here, we love what we see. As for new information on the Tesla For The Rest Of Us (sort of), follow the jump for all the details and check out the gallery of high res photos below.

We have just listened to the panjandrum Elon Musk and the car's designer speak about the new Tesla S sedan, and these are the things to know about the first mass-produced highway-capable electric car: production will ramp up to 20,000 units annually by the end of the first year of production; after the $7,500 tax break, the Model S will start at just under $50,000 – $49,900 to be exact; and 440-volt charging will be available. That base price is for the 160-mile range pack; a 230-mile range pack and a 300-mile range pack will also be available.

Some other fast facts:

The car fits seven people and their luggage: five adults and two children in rear-facing seats under the hatch inside, with luggage in the boot up front. If not people, it can fit a mountain bike with its wheels still on, a surfboard and a 50-inch television at the same time. The dashboard screens were installed to rid the interior of buttons. The 17-inch main display is fully 3G and Internet capable. The 300-mile range is possible (vs the Roadster's 244-mile range) because the S has 8,000 battery cells vs. 6,000 in the Roadster, the batteries have been improved in mass and volumetric performance, and there is more advanced cell chemistry in each cell, and the S has a cd of about .27 vs. the Roadster's drag coefficient of .35. On a 220V outlet, the car can be recharged in 4 hours. Option packages are being decided, with the only initial option being the battery pack. Customers will also be able to buy the 160-mile pack and rent the long range pack for a trip. They are finalizing the warranty, and expect it to be 3-4 years for the car and 7-10 years for the battery pack. They expect replacement battery packs to come in at "well under $5000" according to Elon. The quickness: the standard S will get to 60 in 5.5 to 6.0 seconds. A coming sport version will get to 60 in "well under five seconds," Musk says. The car will get a single-speed transmission. The body panels and chassis will be primarily aluminum, with a total weight of just over 4,000 pounds, about 1,200 pounds of that being battery mass. For infrastructure, Tesla is working with a government-affiliated partner to set up battery changing stations at various locations. They will be able to change the battery in 5-8 minutes, "quicker than filling up your car with gas." According to Tesla's numbers, buying a Tesla S will save you $10-$15K vs a comparably priced gas-powered sedan when gas is $4 per gallon. For an equivalent comparison, you'd have to lease a $35,000 gas-powered car. The biggest hitch: the car doesn't go into production until Q3 of 2011.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/03/26/te…mile-range-0-6/

[Brock]

les subventions, ou comment inventer la crise de demain.

Une Autre Criiise® est Possible.

[h16]

Tesla, et maintenant, la berline.

Il y en a de l'eau qui va passer sous les ponts d'ici fin 2011, donc toujours trop tôt pour retenir son souffle, mais les données sont alléchantes (à part le prix, ce qui n'est pas rien) et ils ont optimisé l'utilisation de l'espace grace à l'absence de moteur à combustion interne : 5 adultes + 2 enfants, le coffre étant à l'avant.

Le coût de l'optin 480 km (300 miles) n'est pas communiqué. Le prix des batteries de remplacement, donné à 5.000 Dollars, parait trop bas (Tesla fait il le pari que, d'ici aux premiers remplacements, vers 2017, les coûts auront beaucoup baissé?)

Et les 7.500 Dollars de subvention, c'est dégueulasse.

On se rapproche de quelque chose d'intéressant.

[p.a]

roadster 240 miles et 109000$

model S 160 miles d'autonomie et 57000$

on reste dans le haut de gamme (en terme de prix) et les performances chutent.

bravo Tesla quand même!

[h16]

http://www.enerzine.com/627/les-nanotechno…rticipatif.html

D’après des chercheurs du MIT, il sera bientôt possible de fabriquer à un coût raisonnable des batteries de téléphone ou d’ordinateurs qui se rechargent en quelques dizaines de secondes, tout en étant plus petites et plus légères. La technologie qu’ils ont mise au point ne change pas drastiquement des batteries actuelles que nous utilisons, les batteries Lithium Ion. En effet, le matériau utilisé est le Lithium Fer Phosphate, LiFePO4 et l’approche ne requiert que de simples changements dans le procédé de production de ce matériau déjà bien connu. Tout ça joue en faveur d’une commercialisation qui ne prendrait pas plus de deux ou trois ans, selon le responsable de la recherche Gerband Ceder.

http://www.cartech.fr/news/batteries-virus…um-39390886.htm

Des chercheurs du Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT ) viennent d’annoncer la mise au point d’une batterie aux possibilités décuplées par l’utilisation de virus biologiques.

Les nanotechnologies peuvent se révéler parfois surprenantes. Comme dans le cas de cette découverte de chercheurs du MIT publiée par la revue Science, qui consiste à utiliser des virus génétiquement modifiés pour accroître la densité énergétiques des batteries Lithium-Ion.

[Brock]

IMI developing electric Hummer

The silent vehicle uses a powerful electric motor backed by a diesel engine.

Dubi Ben-Gedalyahu6 Apr 09 20:49

Israel Military Industries Ltd. (IMI) is developing an electric version of the Hummer all-terrain vehicle. IMI's Slavin plant, which also develops and upgrades armored vehicles and tanks.

The Israeli electric Hummer uses a powerful battery-operated electric motor combined with a diesel engine, which functions as a generator and recharger for the batteries when necessary. The combination extends the effective operating range of the Hummer from a few dozen kilometers on electric power to more than 450 kilometers, with a single tank of diesel fuel. The electric Hummer is especially effective for military missions that require silence. The vehicle is also low-maintenance, has high survivability, clean emissions, and high performance. It is supposed to reach speeds of over 120 km/h and has rapid acceleration. Use of a generator for self-recharging is aimed at providing independent mobility without the need for a special recharging infrastructure.

IMI believes that the electric Hummer project has the potential for upgrading 200,000 military Hummers that are nearing the end of their operational lives worldwide. It was recently reported that the IDF was considering the procurement of electric and hybrid vehicles of various kinds. The US Army is also running a long-term tender for the development and delivery of various electric and hybrid vehicles designed for the battlefield of the future.

http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/doc…982&fid=942

Raids in refugee camps in Judea and Samaria. We've had our targets escape because our damn Ze'ev trucks and Sufa's make so much noise stressing up and down the narrow streets of the dense villages. Night-time border patrols driving with no lights, but whenever we did those we felt like idiots because our hummers still made so much noise. I think the most important part about this upgrade is the range. I mean on the armored humvee's we get very low gas mileage. Sometimes 70km for 120L tank, that's just disgusting.

[Nick de Cusa]

http://www.enerzine.com/627/les-nanotechno…rticipatif.html

Là du coup, pour recharger de quoi faire, disons, 400 km, en 10 secondes, c'est les prises de courant et les cables qui vont devoir être sérieusement renforcés. Et la formation sécurité des gens qui vont devoir les utiliser. Rien d'insurmontable, mais pas négligeable non plus.

[Nick de Cusa]

En ville, plus malin que la bagnole, mais plus malin aussi que les transports en commun dans la plupart des cas. Je connais une régie autonome qui va tenter d'empêcher ça par tous les moyens.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/07/gm…ma-live-reveal/

Chaque mètre carré de ville va devenir un endroit pour jouer aux auto tamponneuses, si on met des gros boudins autour de ces machins.

[Drake]

En ville, plus malin que la bagnole, mais plus malin aussi que les transports en commun dans la plupart des cas. Je connais une régie autonome qui va tenter d'empêcher ça par tous les moyens.

Chaque mètre carré de ville va devenir un endroit pour jouer aux auto tamponneuses, si on met des gros boudins autour de ces machins.

Accoupler des petits véhicules pour la formation de mini-convois ou fluidifier la circulation de voitures roulant sur la même file grâce à l'électronique embarquée et communicante, cela semble une excellente idée. Mais les deux roues du Segway (au lieu de trois pour la stabilité) c'est vraiment de la logique shadok : "pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué", non ?

[Randian shithead]

Accoupler des petits véhicules pour la formation de mini-convois ou fluidifier la circulation de voitures roulant sur la même file grâce à l'électronique embarquée et communicante, cela semble une excellente idée. Mais les deux roues du Segway (au lieu de trois pour la stabilité) c'est vraiment de la logique shadok : "pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué", non ?

Ça permet de pivoter sur place.

Et aussi d'avoir une faible assise au sol. Parce que dans ce machin, si tu met trois roues, t'as intérêt à ce qu'elles soient bien écartées. Si ton centre de gravité dépasse, bim.

[Nick de Cusa]

Accoupler des petits véhicules pour la formation de mini-convois ou fluidifier la circulation de voitures roulant sur la même file grâce à l'électronique embarquée et communicante, cela semble une excellente idée.

…

La logique de la drague aussi va devoir être complètement revue : on s'accouple d'abord, on accoste après.

[Luis]

Ca ne m'a pas l'air très stable…

[Drake]

Ça permet de pivoter sur place.

Et aussi d'avoir une faible assise au sol. Parce que dans ce machin, si tu met trois roues, t'as intérêt à ce qu'elles soient bien écartées. Si ton centre de gravité dépasse, bim.

Mouais, tu as sans doute raison, mais je suis pas tout à fait convaincu qu'il aurait été impossible de faire un véhicule plus conventionnel, donc moins cher, avec la même maniabilité et stabilité que cela :

La logique de la drague aussi va devoir être complètement revue : on s'accouple d'abord, on accoste après.

Tu veux dire que pour une fille par exemple se faire accoler sauvagement par derrière, c'est risquer de se faire draguer?

[Rincevent]

En ville, plus malin que la bagnole, mais plus malin aussi que les transports en commun dans la plupart des cas. Je connais une régie autonome qui va tenter d'empêcher ça par tous les moyens.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/07/gm…ma-live-reveal/

Chaque mètre carré de ville va devenir un endroit pour jouer aux auto tamponneuses, si on met des gros boudins autour de ces machins.

[Nick de Cusa]

Mouais, tu as sans doute raison, mais je suis pas tout à fait convaincu qu'il aurait été impossible de faire un véhicule plus conventionnel, donc moins cher, avec la même maniabilité et stabilité que cela :

Je ne vois pas ce que tu veux dire mais est-ce si cher que cela? Une fois que le programme est écrit et installé sur une puce, le tout produit en masse, pourquoi?

J'avoue n'avoir aucune idée du coût du gyroscope.

[Saxval]

Je suis également sceptique sur ce genre d'inventions.

Le véhicule léger urbain existe déjà: le vélo à assistance électrique. 45millions de chinois l'utilisent.

[LeSanton]

Bien sûr, c'est d'ailleurs ce que l'on voit clairement sur cette vidéo.

[Invité]

Je pense que ce type de véhicules pourrait faire partie des gammes d'autopartage ou de taxis self-service sur courtes distances, tenant aussi bien de vélib que de autolib. Une chose qui serait intéressante, c'est la possibilité de tracter certaines remoques à vélo, comme cette poussette de marché utilisable classiquement à pieds ou remorquée par un vélo

[Hailhail]

Alors que les Indiens abandonnent le rickshaw pour la tata, les européens se remettent au vélo

[Saxval]

Je pense que ce type de véhicules pourrait faire partie des gammes d'autopartage ou de taxis self-service sur courtes distances, tenant aussi bien de vélib que de autolib. Une chose qui serait intéressante, c'est la possibilité de tracter certaines remoques à vélo, comme cette poussette de marché utilisable classiquement à pieds ou remorquée par un vélo

En fait il y a plus pratique, la remorque qui fait caddie (made in switzerland, forcément ):